Men's Guide to Women

(This is Part 3 of an interview with Wayne M. Levine, noted author of the book Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men.  To read Part 1 of this interview follow this link: Part 1:Hold on to Your N.U.T.s , to read Part 2, follow this link: Part 2:Hold on to Your N.U.T.s.)

BoingBook: I would like a little clarification on Tool 5, Being the Rock. For me, “Being the Rock” always meant not showing your emotions, keeping everything inside, not crying, going John Wayne style, but that does not sound like what you mean by Be the Rock.

Wayne M Levine: No, your woman needs to know that no matter what she says, what she does, what time of the month it is, what happened that day with her mother or her girlfriends, that when she tells you or when she acts out that you will be there for her, that you will not try to fix her, you will not run away to your study or the garage, you will not try to argue with her because it is so uncomfortable for you, you will just be there for her and when she is done you are unscathed. You are the same man she started talking to.

When you can be that strong man, when you can be the rock for her, in those moments, she will want to have sex with you.(laughing) How’s that?

BB: Alright. Hey, uh, sign me up, what was that? That was “Be the Rock.” What page is that in the book?

Wayne M Levine: That is what she needs from you. No matter how strong this woman is, no matter how much masculine energy she has, no matter how successful she might be in her own career, she is still a little girl inside and there are times when she needs a strong man to be there for her.

It is not easy doing that because you have to do your own work, men, to figure out why that is so difficult, but once you figure out how to do it, you will be amazed. That is when men start to regain that power to be the men they want to be in the relationship.

It is not about you calling the shots. It is not about you being in charge. It’s just you being comfortable in knowing your job and your role in that relationship and most men are just not clear about how that should work for them.

BB: Tool six Don’t Argue, that sounds like something that goes hand in hand with “Be the Rock,” but that seems very difficult to execute.

Wayne M Levine: Well, yeah, its tough but you just have to stop it. You know what we say? If in doubt, shut the F up.

BB: Now see that’s a simple rule I can remember.

Wayne M Levine: You probably won’t go wrong if you shut up. Now you can’t do that all the time, but if you are not sure, shut up, wait, don’t argue.

If you want to have a discussion, you can let her know. “I’m happy to talk to you about this, but I am not going to argue about it.” It takes time to get there, I know.

It’s very difficult for some men to imagine that their relationship can change but I am telling you I have seen relationships on the brink of divorce turn around.

When you see the senselessness of arguing with your woman you start to realize you do not need to argue with anybody, because when you know what your N.U.T.s are, there is no need to argue.

Once you realize that you don’t need to argue you realize that’s just a good rule to take with you everywhere you go.

BB: You know for myself, I find that when she starts into her problems, I want to dive in and fix it, but it sounds like from what you are saying, I should just shut up and listen.

Wayne M Levine: They don’t want you to fix their problems. What can I tell you? Everyone knows this, it’s in every book.

BB: Where have I been?

Wayne M Levine: You can’t fix the problems, just listen. I have been married 24 years, every now and then my wife will ask me about how to handle something (laughing) and I will say to her “Do you really want my advice… on this” and she will say “Nnnoooo.”

BB: (laughing)

Wayne M Levine: “OK, good.”

BB: Fair enough, moving on.

Wayne M Levine: No matter how much I soften it, the way I would handle that problem doesn’t even come close to how she would handle it. Don’t fix it. Not your job. Support her. Encourage her to get more help. Encourage her to figure out the solution. Don’t try to give it to her because you will just get disappointed, resentful, and then you are in a mess. Knock it off.

Something that is occurring to me as I hear my own voice is that this is the energy; this is the voice of a man talking to another man. This is not a therapist talking to a man.

There are definitely some good therapists out there who have a sense of their own masculinity and can deliver that to men, but by in large you will not get this therapy because they are not really there to tell you what to do, I am going to tell you what to do.

Listen, the work that we do is about fathering, so sometimes Dad needs to tell you what to do, he needs to tell you how he feels, and tell you what’s expected of you as a man, OK? Sometimes it is asking questions and letting you find your own way, but we do not need therapy all the time. We need some guidance, we need some wisdom. We need to get some of the information that our dads didn’t have for us because they didn’t get it or they didn’t know how to deliver it, or they had their own issues going on with Mom that they were not around.

It is not about you being the man I want you to be. You develop your own N.U.T.s.

Use these tools and be that man and I will support you. Now if I don’t like who you are, I am not going to want you in my life, then you have to decide whether that’s the man you want to be. Right?

I am not telling you the kind of man to be, but I am going to give you my honest feedback about how I feel about being with you and how your actions are impacting me. I owe it to you, because you are not going to get that truth everywhere and that is what we teach the men to do for each other.

Tell the truth. If that guy’s an asshole, then it is good for the him to hear that, because if a man in the group is telling him that you can bet the people in the outside world are thinking it, and it is good information to have, then he can decide what to do with it.

BB: So for the guy out there that has been with us for the last several minutes reading this, what’s the motivation to move for the average guy out there?

Wayne M Levine: Well, first of all, if you are reading this you are probably not the average guy because most men are too afraid to even look into this stuff.

BB: We just get a better crop of guys, that’s all there is to it. (laughing)

Wayne M Levine: (laughing) Certainly there is something in this work that is resonating with the reader that is still reading. So, if you have not read enough to buy the book now, don’t buy the book. If you are still listening, you are already in, man. Just buy the book and keep going.

BB: Just one more question. How can a guy get in contact with you for mentoring or for one of your BetterMen’s Weekends? How do they take it to the next level once they are done with the book?

Wayne M Levine: Go to BetterMen.org. or you can email me at Wayne@BetterMen.org and I will respond. I work with men individually under the name Mentor4Men, I talk to men weekly when we get started and help them integrate what’s in the book into their life.

We have the BetterMen Retreats that we do it a couple of times a year. The next one for us is actually coming up March 6^th through March 9^th, 2008. You can get information about that on the website as well.

BB: And where is that event in March going to be?

Wayne M Levine: Yeah, March 6^th through the 9^th, just outside Santa Barbara and I am telling you if you have never done anything like this before you are going to have the time of your life and if you have done work before, this weekend will be different.

I just want to say to the men that are reading this, I honor you for having the balls to try to be a better man. Don’t quit.

BB: Thank you Wayne for taking the time to give us a little bit of insight into your book and into this new way of thinking. It is not traditional and not like anything else that we at BoingBook have ever heard as it relates to men.

I really appreciate you taking the time today, thank you very much for being with us.

Wayne M Levine: Yeah, thank you.